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From: Ian C. Purdie  9/2/2003 7:04 pm 
To: ALL  (1 of 10) 
 5503.1 

Monday, September 1, 2003 Posted: 1950 GMT ( 3:50 AM HKT)

GENEVA, Switzerland -- James
                  Bond actor Pierce Brosnan has
                  won a legal battle to claim the
                  Internet Web site bearing his
                  name, United Nations arbitrators
                  have ruled....

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/internet/09/01/web.brosnan/index.html

 
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From: Vicente Duque  9/2/2003 8:49 pm 
To: Ian C. Purdie  (2 of 10) 
 5503.2 in reply to 5503.1 

 

Ian :

This can lead to ridiculous abuse against the holders of Domain Names.

A Protestant Minister in the Bible Belt bought the Domain Name

Corinthians.com

because he was a follower of Saint Paul and there are some famous "Epistles" that are known in Bible and Christian Circles by that name of "Corinthians"....

But the enthusiastic pastor didn't know that there was a Soccer Team with the same name "Corinthians" ....

And a foolish court snatched the name from the poor guy. ... The Soccer Team was Super-Rich and the owner of Stadiums and many properties .... Big country houses and soccer fields for training and many other gymns, sport teams and properties.....

They sell the "passes" of soccer players to European Soccer Teams .... Several Million Dollars for each player !!!

And the team fans and hooligans were ready to pay scores of lawyers ..... and to appeal and sue forever .... to recover the name.

The poor Christian minister without money had to deliver the name to the Rich and Powerful !!

Vicente

 

 
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From: Garnet Chaney  9/3/2003 11:51 am 
To: Vicente Duque  (3 of 10) 
 5503.3 in reply to 5503.2 

That does it! I'm never going to another Corinthians soccer game again! They've stolen the domain name, and they can't even bother to put up a decent website under that name.... Pierce Brosnan is a boring James Bond anyhow, no loss to boycott his movies......

And what about the guys who patented the blinking cursor? Or that company that got a european patent that "covers all computerised methods of automatically delivering a gift to a third party"

- Garnet

Inventor of patented software technologies:

6,104,990 Full-Text Language independent phrase extraction

5,913,215

Full-Text Browse by prompted keyword phrases with an improved method for obtaining an initial document set

5,721,897 Full-Text Browse by prompted keyword phrases with an improved user interface

 
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From: Vicente Duque  9/3/2003 6:01 pm 
To: Garnet Chaney  (4 of 10) 
 5503.4 in reply to 5503.3 

 

Webmill :

Thanks for your contribution and I am sure that many people are honored of having you here.....

I love all these topics of linguistics, mathematics, language theory, searches in search engines, etc.....

I want to comment on this paragraph of yours ( I broke your long phrase in order to make it more palatable, tasty and understandable )  :

Unfortunately, mathematical analyzers suffer from many of the same disadvantages as referential analyzers. A database of stemmed words and their various inflected forms is usually required.

As with referential analyzers, the database consumes memory and makes for relatively slow linguistic analysis because a separate database search is usually required for each word in a phrase to determine whether there is a corresponding stemmed word.

Mathematical analyzers are also language dependent and require a different database of words for each different language.

As with referential analyzers, the language dependence of mathematical analyzers places a significant burden on developers of mathematical analyzers and limits applicability of systems that incorporate mathematical analyzers to the particular languages for which stemmed word databases are provided.

That is extremely interesting .... Before reading your document I have pondered and thought a lot these questions and topics :

1) Google and all search engines seem to me very stupid and idiotic ( no offense to Google Engineers ) and they even favor spammers and "deep pockets" ... ( Those that can pay a lot for adverting or contrived and fake links )

2) How can a foolish Search Engine Motor consider and evaluate the Business Firm that has a Complementary Domain Name Set or that works in several languages ( European or Non-European ).

3) The Multi Language Corporation ( Probably with different domain names in different languages ) is clearly superior, from the point of view of many visitors. ( Many of them may be bilingual, multilingual, etc ... )

4) The Complementary Domain Name Set is clearly superior to the Business Firm that has a single Domain Name and nothing else to show.

It all depends on the power of Complementarity, Cooperation and Synergy.

I you are the owner of  

dogs.com

in operation, then you have some power.

But if your Business Firm owns

cats.com

then you are in a situation in which

1 + 1 > 2

and the value of dogs.com and cats.com is enhanced by being together. ( That is Synergy and Bio-Cooperation )

Now add that you also have

birds.com

and the dogs, cats and birds in several different languages !!

 

Awakening Giants :

Let me rave in unbounded fantasy and say that probably there are Sleeping Giants ( markets, corporations, business firms, activities, entrepreneurs, Nations or Geographical Areas )....

Those Giants are now in deep sleep, because the Google Foolishness prevents them from waking up and emerging to Business Heights or to the Intellectual or Cultural Potential. ( There are other things beyond money )...

Google and Search Engines favor the Rich and Powerful : the established big corporations and stifle innovations ...

Webmill :

Thanks again for your post and I welcome your ideas and inventions.

Vicente

 

 
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From: expendable  9/4/2003 7:38 pm 
To: ALL  (5 of 10) 
 5503.5 in reply to 5503.4 

 
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From: ganswijk  9/4/2003 7:51 pm 
To: Ian C. Purdie  (6 of 10) 
 5503.6 in reply to 5503.1 

I haven't read the article in the link you gave, but I have been following this issue closely over the years and most people will associate a domain name with the text Pierce Brosnan in it with this actor. It's not unreasonable that he has the biggest right to the name even when some early-bird gold-digger snatched it.

Of course it matters if the gold-digger took it knowing about it's value because it belonged to a famous actor or not, but even when two parties claim the same name as in the later in this thread given example of 'Corinthians' because they both think they really deserve it, economical interests should be given consideration. The minister only wanted it because it was in the Bible, but is he himself a Corinthian? Did he claim all bible book terms? And if so, why and if not, why not? I'm not much into sports, but I can understand that a sports club has a serious economical interest in the domain name corinthians.com. And by the way, was that priest busy setting up a commercial undertaking? They normally tend not to portray themselves as such.

And how about the poor people still living in Corinthe (which by the way named the corinth/krent/raison/dried-grape...). But perhaps they should content themselves with corinthe.gr or corinthians.gr.

 
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From: Garnet Chaney  9/5/2003 12:24 pm 
To: Vicente Duque  (7 of 10) 
 5503.7 in reply to 5503.4 

Vicente,

One of the biggest problems with search engines is the knowledge in the head of the user that doesn't get entered onto the search line. There are two big reasons to not get the results that you want: 1) The content is not a part of the collection being searched, 2) you had implied knowledge in your head that you didn't tell the search engine.

Many search engines will try to give you some context about how a page is related to your search. For example, the home page of a veterinarian might talk about cats, and dogs, and birds. If you are searching for cats, the information about birds on the page is probably not interesting, and if you are searching for dogs, you want an entirely different summary of the page.  Many search engines will try to do that. My systems did the best job of that process by storing the pages to refilter them according to "refine" queries entered by the user.

But one of the weaknesses of search engines is that when they indexed the page, they had no idea of exactly what searches people would use to pull up the page. They have no idea what is going to be relevant in the future. So the static analysis that they did of the page when they indexed it might not be well tuned to what a particular user wants on a particular query.

Yesterday I bought an Iris Pen II Executive.  It's a USB connected scanning wand that reads text. Quick Review: It worked surprisingly well, the OCR is very good. However, on a test of scanning the several page table of contents of a book, I found it took 9.5 minutes to scan, and 6 minutes to correct the OCR to match what I would have typed. I found I could just type in the table of contents in 11 minutes. So this is typical for most scanners: If you type 40WPM or faster, scanning might not be any faster than just typing the text after you include time to correct the innevitable errors.

Point for this discussion: Before buying it, I sat down in the store to do some online research about it. (I almost never shop in a store that doesn't provide me an internet terminal so that I can comparison shop online for reviews.) This new product already has 1700 pages in google  ("Iris Pen II Executive")!  This company might be lucky to sell 1700 pens in their entire production run!

I found many many copies of the reviews on Amazon on these other sites. After I read those reviews, I wanted to find other reviews, but with so many clones via AWS, it wasn't easy.

So how do I find some more independent reviews? How do I communicate this to a search engine that sometime in the past blindly indexed all these sites, not knowing what my particular need would be  today? There are not a lot of reviews of this device, and all the clones of Amazon make it difficult to find a new point of view. If you instead use the query: 

"Iris Pen II Executive" -amazon

the results count drops to 651. Does this mean there are approximately 1100 affiliates of Amazon listing this product?  Very possibly...  Using

"Iris Pen II Executive" -"I sat in my easy chair with my laptop on the table"

to exclude pages that include the first Amazon review drops the results to 1,580. So one could say there are at least 120 sites copying that review for this product, probably via AWS.

Excluding the contrived Amazon part number,

"Iris Pen II Executive" -B0000636X5

results in 1520 pages.

Sadly, attemping to filter out both of the above with

"Iris Pen II Executive" -B0000636X5 -"I sat in my easy chair with my laptop on the table"

gets the warning:

"chair" (and any subsequent words) was ignored because we limit queries to 10 words.

But now the results drops to 1460. So it's a safe bet there are at least 240 sites using AWS feed for this product.

Combining all three of the above, using Amazon.com is the following query shows 620 results,  but leaving off the .COM reduces you to 583 results, 70 documents less than the -Amazon above:

"Iris Pen II Executive" -amazon -B0000636X5 -"I sat in my easy chair with my laptop on the table"

This query was useful, it gave me some results that excluded most fo the comparison people... It brought an innovative site like www.brainx.com out of the noise...

Excluding the Amazon price filters out even more associates:

"Iris Pen II Executive" -amazon -B0000636X5 -180.49

This gives 546 results.  Unfortunately, this still leaves some Amazon people in the list, like PCBuyReview, obviously an associate with their URL that includes the Amazon ASIN. Obviously an industrial strength version of the "-" operator is needed to look at other things like URL, etc.

Using these techniques I eventually found some more reviews of the product, and I decided to buy it.....

In case anyone didn't notice, I'll state the obvious: Imagine a search tool that included Amazon's page on the product, and then with strategies like the above excluded all the copy cats. Such could be easily embedded in google as a checkbox item ("filter to reduced cloned pages.")  While it might be tough to decide whether Ian stole his content from other sites, or if they stole from him, certainly no one would accuse Amazon of stealing Michael Lapore's writings, so if Amazon and another site contain the same words, guess who would lose.....   What would your commission check look like without Google's traffic?   Such a tool could tremendously rise the fortunes of people like Michael who write their own content. But can he write fast enough?  It's hard to hand write more pages than can be cranked out by a gerbil on a wheel....

At a recent search engine conference I personally thanked all the people at the google booth for all the money they send me each month, but I didn't let them have my card, or see my name tag, to prevent any chance of jealous retaliation!!!!  Years ago a shift in inktomi traffic reduced one of my internet sites from making $500 per day down to $3 per day.  I knew the site was at risk, but I didn't expect such a drammatic change.....  I had sold another larger site, with a million pages, for a good chunk of change a year before that happened. I found out from the new owner that his site had also been reduced to ashes when he was contacted by inktomi and asked to pay 29 cents a visitor for the traffic they were sending. Of course he didn't have $20,000 a day to send them, so they yanked that site from their results... 

Sadly, today any script kiddy can produce a dozen copies of a  million page site with a rodent script that they don't even have to write. Bac ...[Message truncated]

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From: Vicente Duque  9/5/2003 1:06 pm 
To: Garnet Chaney  (8 of 10) 
 5503.8 in reply to 5503.7 

 

Garnet :

You said :

Sadly, today any script kiddy can produce a dozen copies of a  million page site

..........

 As we saw above, they can make a lot of progress with very little effort.....

Garnet :

First of all ... thanks a lot for being with us ... Thanks for excellent ideas and considerations that you provide to us in this thread. ..... I have read what you publish here with Great Attention, because these matters are "Life or Death" for me !!!

I derive a sense of Security and Peace of Mind when I see Smart People here !!!

I read you paragraphs and the red text ( from you ) that I have enclosed above and I think that I am becoming a victim of a competition that knows better than me : programming, spamming, search engine positioning, etc....

And my good traits of Art, Writing, Good Taste, Selection and Classification or Products, etc ..... seem powerless before the avalanche of "Dirty Tricks" to get good position at Google. ( by my competitiors ) ...

I am now facing some trouble on the Traffic Front and I consider Google to be the main "culprit"  ( of course Google is never guilty and whatever Google does is always right ) ....

But I think that Google extracts a single negative characteristic from my  ( many ) websites and crucifies me with a Low Page Rank ... without attention at the excellent specialization, art quality,  or usefulness of my classifications and information provided with a lot of care and time.

I have three options :

1) Pay per traffic to Google ( To pay to the Google Torturer and conspirator against Vicente ) or to another search engine like Overture or who knows what ???

2) Generate "Non-Commercial" Content ... In fact I am very good at this task and have Domain Names reserved and almost active for an Emergency of Diminishing Traffic ... But this costs a lot of my time and effort ...

3) Continue polishing the commercial front and forget about AdWord and "Non-Commercial" Content Generation.

This election between the 3 alternatives is very painful and I wish that I were rich enough to pay to a few excellent people that I have met in this board and that would be wonderful as consultants and advisors for me. ( Programming and SEO included  .... )

And I include you in those people with knowledge, science and programming to give sound advice to me ....

Well ....  I am very prudent in my expenses and when I have wanted to send money to people that help me I have found that Pay Pal doesn't accept credit cards from my country ... ( Plenty of trouble !! )

What I am going to do is to wait a little .... If the traffic situation worsens then I am going to generate "Non-Commercial Content" like a madman, working 30 hours a day in text generation.

Thanks Heaven that I am Super Blatherer and Super Verbose !! ... But I still have some doubts about the strategy of becoming a Blather Machine. ( Just to get good grades at the Google School !! )

 

Vicente

 

 
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From: Garnet Chaney  9/6/2003 1:11 am 
To: Vicente Duque  (9 of 10) 
 5503.9 in reply to 5503.8 

Vicente,

Well, pagerank is not so much based on your blather, it's based on how many sites link to your site. If lots of sites link to you, Google's PageRank says "wow! People like this enough to spend bytes linking to it, it must be good! We better give it a boost!"

Big Hint (I'm giving away the store with this one): Currently, Google doesn't care if you own all the domains that are linking back to your main domain. With a proper web of links between multiple domains, (and I mean quality links, embedded in paragraphs, not just lists of links) you can boost your own sites a bit.   But do notice the word "currently".....  In the olden days, if you were on a shared hosting, like cheapbw, and any one of their clients did spammed AltaVista in a way that AltaVista didn't like, everyone at that hosting company whose site was on the same IP address would get booted out of AltaVista!  Back in the days when AltaVista was the big traffic driver, that was a real sword to slay the innocent.

Of course putting a link to your sites in any online forum messages you post anywhere is also good. Often those webpages stay archived somewhere for many years. And if those forum pages are getting indexed by Google, you'll get a boost in your pagerank. Put your URL in your email sig..... Talk your friends into making websites for themselves, and give them a helping hand at it, then when they are thanking you for their help, ask them to put a nice "About Vicente's Sites" page on their website. You write a nice keyword rich review of your site, and post it on their site. And make that review different on every one of your friend's sites.....

I was pleased to see I sold a bunch of Sponge Bob Square Pants stuff yesterday.

Thanks for the kind words! I almost traded my laptop for a taxi during the $3 days.

- Garnet

http://www.garnetchaney.com/promotion.shtml - Since every budget can afford "Free", visit my free list of more than 2 dozen ways to promote your website and increase traffic. Get the benefit of my almost ten years of "Serving the Internet"....

 

 
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From: Vicente Duque  9/6/2003 9:50 am 
To: Garnet Chaney  (10 of 10) 
 5503.10 in reply to 5503.9 

 

Webmill :

You said :

Well, pagerank is not so much based on your blather, it's based on how many sites link to your site. If lots of sites link to you, Google's PageRank says "wow! People like this enough to spend bytes linking to it, it must be good! We better give it a boost!"

Thanks for all your excellent advice .... I am glad that we have you here ....  

I need to do many of the things that you point out !! ....

And please don't be put off by my use of the word "blather" and "blatherer" in referring to myself and my skills ...

I love the words : ( blather, blatherer, blathery, etc... ) but I use them in an ironic and satyrical way ....

Freud, Jung, many philosophers and political thinkers were accused of being "blatherers" ...

Jean Paul Sartre used to say that he would piss on the books of many other French Intellectuals ( Predecessors of Sartre ) ....

Now his books are on cardboard boxes to be sold at USD $0.10 each ( less than the value of paper ) and the other guys ( Glories of France ) are published in Luxury Editions.

Shakespeare was accused of being stupid, idiotic, etc.....  in 16XX, 17XX, etc... by very famous intellectuals.

So Blather is Beautiful !!

You said :

Back in the days when AltaVista was the big traffic driver, that was a real sword to slay the innocent.

We are still in the "Old Days" of punishing the innocent with low grades and giving big traffic to Spam Shrewdness and Programming Flair !!

Thanks for your advice .... I am glad that you are here ... And we will need you for future commercial thoughts !!

Vicente

 

 
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